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picking a clinical trial for stage IV pleural - what actually matters when time is limited

Family · · 61 views
So my dad got diagnosed with stage IV pleural meso in March and we spent about six weeks just trying to figure out if a trial made sense at all. I'm an NP so I was pulling studies at midnight like some kind of obsessed person and honestly a lot of what's out there is either too vague or assumes you've already got a medical team helping you filter.

Here's what actually matters when you're looking at trials and you don't have months to waste.

First, the trial's actual endpoint. Some are looking at overall survival, some are looking at response rate or progression-free survival. These sound similar but they're not. If the trial is measuring something like "percentage of people who respond" that's different from "how long people live." For my dad's situation, we prioritized survival data because he was already palliative by the time we looked at this stuff. A trial measuring tumor shrinkage alone wasn't going to change our conversation.

Second, eligibility criteria that actually apply to your person. I cannot stress this enough. My dad's creatinine was slightly elevated and we got rejected from two trials before even talking to the teams. I should have just asked upfront, "what are your hard cutoffs for kidney function and liver function" instead of getting his hopes up. Read the inclusion and exclusion criteria like it's a contract because it basically is.

Third, the trial location and frequency. Stage IV patients are already exhausted. If the trial requires weekly visits to a center three hours away, that's a real barrier even if the drug sounds promising. My dad was at Northwestern doing palliative care and there was a trial at Lurie Children's that looked good on paper but required twice-weekly visits. That wasn't realistic.

Fourth, whether they're still enrolling and what the actual enrollment status is. I found several trials that looked perfect and then called and they weren't taking new patients anymore or they'd hit their enrollment cap. The website didn't say that clearly. Always call and ask directly, "are you actively enrolling right now and how soon do you need to start."

Fifth, what happens after the trial ends. This one nobody talks about. If your person responds well, can they stay on the drug. If they don't respond, what's the plan. For palliative patients especially, you need to know if the trial is just extending a difficult process or if there's actually a pathway to continued treatment.

We ended up not doing a trial because by the time we got through the screening process for the ones that seemed viable, my dad's performance status had declined enough that he wouldn't have tolerated it. But if we'd asked these questions earlier and had a medical team actually helping us filter instead of me doing it alone at 2am, we might have made a different call.

The oncology team should be helping you with this. If they're not, that's a red flag. My dad's palliative care doc at Northwestern was incredible about just saying "here are the three trials I think are worth your time" instead of leaving us to swim through ClinicalTrials.gov.

Anyway, if you're looking at trials right now, start with the eligibility criteria first. Don't fall in love with a drug until you know your person actually qualifies.

12 Replies

Patient
This is such valuable detail, and I'm really sorry about your dad. The eligibility criteria point hits hard because I'm currently sitting with my own rejection letters from two HIPEC trials at Cleveland Clinic. One was the creatinine issue, the other was my albumin levels from back in September that apparently disqualified me even though my numbers have improved since then.

I've been keeping a detailed symptom and lab value journal since my diagnosis in November, and honestly it's made me realize how much the trial screening process depends on a single snapshot in time. I pulled the protocols for both trials I applied to and started cross-referencing them against published literature on peritoneal HIPEC outcomes. There's actually a 2024 study in Annals of Surgical Oncology that breaks down how patient selection criteria correlate with actual treatment tolerance, and it's making me wonder if some of these cutoffs are overly conservative or if they're genuinely protective.

What you said about the palliative care team being your filter is really important. My surgical oncologist at Cleveland Clinic has been better about this than my initial general oncologist, but I'm still doing a lot of the heavy lifting myself. The "what happens after" question is something I'm pushing on now because I want to know if I'm looking at HIPEC as potentially curative or if I'm looking at it as a way to extend progression-free survival.

Did your dad's team ever explain why the twice-weekly travel requirement was structured that way? I'm trying to understand if that's standard protocol or if some trials have more flexibility than their initial description suggests.
Family
The albumin thing is so frustrating because labs change, right? And they're using a snapshot from months ago when you might be in a completely different place now. Have you asked Cleveland Clinic if they'd consider re-screening you with current labs, or do they have a policy about how recent the numbers need to be? Sometimes there's a little wiggle room if you push back with updated bloodwork, especially if you can show improvement. That journal you're keeping is gold though, seriously, because it gives you actual data to bring to conversations instead of just saying "I feel better.
Medical Expert Response
The performance status piece is so real and I don't think it gets said enough. We see patients come in who were clearly PS1 (basically fully functional, minimal symptoms) at diagnosis but by the time the trial screening is done, they've slipped to PS2 or worse, and now the door is closed. The KEYNOTE-028 trial data on mesothelioma actually showed that baseline performance status was one of the stronger predictors of who tolerated the regimen at all, not just who responded.

One thing I'd add that nobody mentions: ask the trial coordinator specifically what the screen fail rate is for patients with your person's profile. Some trials have 40-50% screen fail rates. That's weeks of testing and waiting with a real chance of nothing. A coordinator I worked with at a Chicago NCI center told me in January that one of their current trials was screen-failing about 6 in 10 mesothelioma referrals on lab criteria alone. That number would have changed how I counseled families about where to put their energy.

Talk to your own oncologist about this, but sometimes the answer really is that a compassionate use or expanded access request gets you the same drug with less logistical burden than a formal trial. Not always. But worth the conversation.
3 found this helpful
Family
Yeah, the performance status decline is what got us too. My dad was PS1 when he was first diagnosed but by October when we were actually ready to pursue something, he'd dropped to PS2 and honestly that changed everything about what made sense. I didn't know about the KEYNOTE-028 data specifically so that's really helpful context. Were you seeing that performance status slip happen pretty quickly in your patients, or did some of them stay stable longer? I'm curious if there's anything that actually slows that decline or if it's just the disease progression itself.
Veteran
Your point about what happens after the trial ends is exactly what nobody tells you upfront. I'm stage II, diagnosed Oct 2025, had surgery in December and I'm still waiting on my VA claim from November. While I'm dealing with that bureaucratic nightmare, I started looking at trials too because my oncologist mentioned a couple options. Called one place and asked "if I respond well, can I keep taking it" and they basically said "we don't know yet, the trial's still running." That's not acceptable when you're already fighting the VA system and don't have time to waste on dead ends.

What I found helpful was calling the trial coordinator directly instead of reading the website. The website says one thing, the actual person on the phone tells you the real story. Asked them straight up: active enrollment, what's your kidney function cutoff, and what happens if someone stabilizes on the drug. Got honest answers in ten minutes instead of getting my hopes up like your dad did. The woman even said "your creatinine's fine, let's get you screened" instead of ghosting me like some of these places do.

One thing I'd add that nobody mentioned: ask about the trial's actual track record with your specific stage and type. Not the published data, but what's actually happening with their current patients. I got rejected from one trial that looked good on paper, but when I dug deeper, their mesothelioma patients were mostly stage III, not stage II like me. They weren't turning me down because I didn't qualify, they just weren't seeing results in my population and weren't being upfront about that.

Your dad's palliative team sounds like they actually cared. That makes all the difference. Camp Lejeune gave me this disease, the VA's giving me the runaround, so I'm channeling that anger into asking the hard questions upfront instead of wasting time on trials that won't work for me.
Medical Expert Response
This is one of the most practically useful posts I've seen on this forum and everything you've outlined is accurate.

The endpoint issue is something I talk about with families constantly. Progression-free survival (how long before the cancer grows again) and overall survival (how long someone lives) can tell completely different stories about a drug. The KEYNOTE-158 trial is a good example of this, pembrolizumab showed response rates that looked promising in certain solid tumors but the survival benefit in pleural meso specifically was murkier. Families saw the response numbers and got excited. Understandably.

The performance status piece is the one that breaks my heart most often in clinic. By the time families have done the research, called the sites, navigated the eligibility hurdles... sometimes the window has closed not because the trial wasn't right but because the process took too long. I've seen this happen within a six week span. So your instinct to start with eligibility criteria first is exactly right, it's the filter that should come before anything else.

One thing I'd add for anyone reading this: ask the trial coordinator specifically whether the investigational drug has any overlap with standard of care options your person hasn't tried yet. Sometimes a trial closes off future treatment pathways depending on what they give you. That conversation happened too late for a family I worked with in early 2023 and it changed what was available to them afterward.

Talk to your oncologist about all of this, especially the endpoint question because it's specific to your person's goals of care. But this post is doing real work.
3 found this helpful
Patient
Man, this is solid stuff and I'm sorry about your dad. That's the kind of thing that makes you realize real quick how much of this whole process is just grinding through the details when you're already exhausted.

I didn't have to deal with trials, Stage I caught me early enough that surgery was the move. Had my EPP back in February and honestly the hardest part wasn't the operation itself, it was all the pre-surgery appointments and insurance stuff. But I get what you mean about eligibility criteria biting you in the ass. Before my surgery my oncologist wanted me on chemo first and we spent like two weeks going back and forth with insurance about whether they'd cover it. Turns out they had their own list of approved protocols and my doc's recommendation wasn't on it. We had to call and talk to an actual human at the insurance company instead of just submitting paperwork, and that changed everything.

Your point about location and frequency is huge too. I'm in Detroit so I've got University of Michigan and Beaumont close by, but I remember thinking even getting to appointments twice a week was gonna wear me down. Can't imagine doing that if I had to drive three hours or if I was already as far gone as your dad was.

The thing nobody tells you is that all this research and filtering you're doing costs energy that sick people just don't have. You shouldn't need an NP in the family to figure out which trial makes sense. That's on the medical team to hand you like three real options with actual pros and cons, not dump you on ClinicalTrials.gov and hope you figure it out.

Sounds like you did everything right even if the timing didn't work out. That's the frustrating part about this stuff.
Family
Yeah, surgery changes the whole calculus. I'm glad they caught yours early enough for EPP to be an option. The pre-surgery gauntlet is brutal though and honestly I think people underestimate that part of it. My dad was already too far gone for any surgical intervention by the time we had answers, so we never had to navigate that particular nightmare but I heard plenty about it from his team.

How are you doing post-op recovery wise?
Veteran
Man, this is solid advice and I appreciate you laying it out like this. Stage IV is a different animal than what I'm dealing with, but the eligibility thing hits hard. I went through something similar with my VA claim screening.

Got diagnosed October 2025 after a persistent cough that wouldn't quit. Filed my VA claim in November, still waiting on that paperwork circus. Had surgery in December at Balboa Naval Medical Center here in San Diego. Before they'd touch me they ran about fifteen different tests because apparently my lungs weren't the only thing they needed to check. Creatinine, liver function, all of it. If I'd had any elevation in the wrong direction I'd have been screened out of their surgical protocol. So yeah, those hard cutoffs are real and they don't care about your timeline.

The location thing is huge too. I'm fortunate being in San Diego with access to Balboa and UC San Diego, but I know guys from Camp Lejeune who got diagnosed and had to drive to Arizona or fly to Texas for trials. One guy I knew from the barracks back in 1979, 1980 around there, he ended up at a trial in Phoenix. Three hours each way. He lasted maybe four weeks before the travel just became too much on top of everything else.

Your point about the oncology team actually helping you filter is the real thing. If they're not doing that work for you, something's wrong. My team at Balboa sat down and said here's what we think makes sense for stage II, here's what doesn't, here's why. That matters.

Hope your dad's doing okay with whatever you guys decide.
Family
The VA paperwork is its own special kind of nightmare, honestly. I haven't dealt with that directly but I've heard from other families here that it can take months and the back and forth is exhausting when you're already dealing with everything else. Are they at least moving on your claim while you wait for the formal decision, or is it completely stalled? And I'm glad you got the surgery done at Balboa. That's a solid facility.
Medical Expert Response
This is one of the most practical breakdowns I've seen on this forum and I want to add a few things from the clinical side that might help others reading this.

The endpoint question is huge. The KEYNOTE-028 trial and some of the earlier pembrolizumab work in meso used disease control rate as the primary endpoint, which sounds encouraging until you realize it includes stable disease, not just responses. So when someone says "60% disease control" that number can mean very different things depending on how sick someone already is. For a stage IV palliative patient, stable disease for 8 weeks and stable disease for 14 months are both "controlled" in that math. Ask specifically what the median duration of response was.

The performance status thing you mentioned is something I wish more families understood before they start the process. Most trials require ECOG (Eastern Cooperative Oncology Group) performance status of 0 or 1, sometimes 2. It's a simple 0-4 scale but it changes fast in advanced meso and a patient who qualifies in week one may not qualify in week four. I saw this happen in February with a patient whose family had done everything right, every question asked, and the timeline just moved faster than the screening process.

One thing I'd add to your list: ask the trial coordinator specifically whether compassionate use or expanded access is available if your person responds but the trial closes. It's rare but worth asking.

Your instinct to go directly to the team filtering for you rather than ClinicalTrials.gov was right. That database is built for researchers, not families.

Talk to your dad's oncologist about all of this before making any decisions.
2 found this helpful
Family
Oh wow, this is so thorough and honestly I wish we'd had something like this when Joe got diagnosed. You're hitting on something really important that nobody tells you upfront, which is that trial eligibility is basically a lottery and you don't even know the rules until you're already invested.

We went through something similar with the immunotherapy Joe started in November. His oncologist at Moffitt Cancer Center actually sat down with us and was pretty blunt about which trials made sense given his stage and his other health stuff. Joe's got some kidney issues from years back and that knocked us out of at least one option right away. I remember being frustrated because I'd spent like three hours reading about this trial and felt like we were wasting time, but honestly that doctor saved us from chasing something that wouldn't have worked anyway.

The location thing you mentioned is so real. We're lucky because Moffitt is here in Tampa so we don't have the travel burden, but I watched friends of ours drive their husband up to Jacksonville for treatment twice a week and it was absolutely brutal. By week four he was so exhausted from the driving that the treatment itself seemed secondary. You're not just signing up for a drug, you're signing up for everything around it.

I think your point about what happens after is something people don't ask enough either. We made sure we understood what the plan was if Joe responded well versus if he didn't, and whether staying on the immunotherapy was an option long term. Knowing there was a pathway forward made the decision feel less like we were just buying time and more like we were actually trying something with a real plan attached.

Your dad was lucky to have you doing that research even at 2am, but you're absolutely right that this should not fall on family members to figure out alone. Glad you're putting this out there for people still in the thick of it.

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