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thermal lagging on pipes - why is it so hard to spot the asbestos

Veteran · · 64 views
Been thinking about this because on the Oriskany we had miles of piping below decks and half the time you couldn't tell what was wrapped around it. That's the real problem with thermal lagging.

First off the stuff gets painted over. White paint, gray paint, whatever was on hand. You're looking at a pipe with what looks like regular insulation wrap and you have no idea if there's asbestos underneath because you can't see it. The paint seals it all in.

Second it degrades different ways. Some of it stays intact for decades and some of it starts cracking and flaking and nobody notices because it's behind equipment or in spaces you don't go into regularly. When it starts to deteriorate that's when the fibers get loose and that's when people breathe them in.

Third it looks exactly like non-asbestos lagging. There's no way to tell by looking. Could be asbestos, could be fiberglass, could be mineral wool. You need a lab test to know for sure. And back when they were installing this stuff on ships nobody was testing anything.

The Navy didn't document half of what was asbestos and what wasn't. They just used whatever was available and cheap. Thermal lagging was everywhere on the engineroom piping and the machinery spaces. You were working near it constantly and you had no way to know.

That's what gets me about the whole thing. They knew but they didn't tell us.

8 Replies

Veteran
Yeah, the Oriskany had that same setup, miles of it you couldn't see into. We were crawling around those spaces constantly and never knew what we were breathing.
Medical Expert Response
What you're describing about the Oriskany is something I hear from so many veterans in our groups and it never gets easier to sit with. The invisibility of the risk is exactly what makes it so hard to process emotionally, not just physically. You couldn't have known. That's not a rationalization, that's just true.

The documentation piece especially. I worked with a gentleman from the Constellation a few years back, and when he tried to reconstruct his exposure history for his medical team at the VA in San Diego, there were literally no records for entire sections of the ship's insulation work. His pulmonologist said she'd seen that pattern so many times with Navy cases from the 50s through the 70s that she'd stopped being surprised by it.

And you're right that the visual ID problem is real and ongoing. Research out of the UK Health and Safety Executive found that even trained inspectors misidentify lagging type without sampling a significant percentage of the time. So it wasn't just inexperienced sailors who couldn't tell. Nobody could.

The "they knew" part of what you wrote... that's where a lot of the anger lives in the people I work with, and that anger is completely understandable. If it starts to feel like it's sitting on your chest more than just venting here, talking to someone who specializes in trauma around occupational illness can really help move it somewhere. It doesn't have to stay where it is.
4 found this helpful
Veteran
Yeah, the Constellation guys went through the same thing. Documentation was a joke back then, still is in a lot of cases. What bugs me most is we were just doing our jobs, you know? Hull tech work meant being everywhere on that ship. Engine spaces, machinery compartments, crawl spaces. You didn't think twice about what was around you, you just worked.
Patient
I worked around this exact problem at the Johns-Manville plant from 1978 to 1985 and we were manufacturing the stuff that ended up on those ships. The painted-over insulation issue you're describing is something I think about constantly now, especially since my diagnosis last month.

What strikes me is how deliberately obscured it all was. We knew which batches contained asbestos and which didn't, but the labeling was inconsistent at best. A lot of thermal lagging went out with minimal identification because once it's wrapped and painted on a ship or in an industrial setting, who's going to unwrap it to check? That was the whole point. Out of sight, out of mind.

The degradation pattern you mentioned is exactly what concerns me about my own exposure timeline. I didn't work on ships but I handled the raw materials and inspected finished products. Some of that lagging would crack during storage or transport and nobody cleaned it up properly. We'd just wrap it tighter or paint over it like you said.

I've been keeping detailed notes on my symptom progression since the diagnosis in November, trying to correlate timeline with what I was handling during which years. The Navy documentation gap you mentioned is infuriating but not surprising. I've been requesting my own employment and medical records from 1978 forward and getting almost nothing back. My lawyer's office is handling that part now.

The "they knew" part is what I struggle with most. We knew. The companies knew. And the people doing the actual work, handling it, breathing near it constantly, they were the last to find out.
Veteran
Same exact thing on the Iwo Jima, engineroom was a maze of that stuff and yeah nobody could tell what was what. The paint job just made it worse because then you're not even thinking about it being there.
Veteran
Yeah the Iwo Jima, that's a big flat-top. Engineroom on those was tight quarters and all that piping ran everywhere. If you were doing maintenance work down there you were practically touching the stuff. Nobody handed us a sheet saying "this section has asbestos, avoid it." They just sent you in to do your job.
Family
Yeah, the invisibility factor is huge. My dad worked in industrial maintenance before his Navy time, and he's told me the same thing about the plants where he started. You'd see lagging that looked completely uniform, sealed with paint, and there was literally no way to know what was underneath without sending a sample to a lab. Which nobody was doing.

What strikes me professionally is how the degradation pattern you're describing actually matters clinically. Thermal lagging doesn't just sit there inert once it starts breaking down. Vibration from machinery, temperature cycling, people moving equipment around - all of that accelerates the damage. The fibers become airborne and then they're in your lungs before you even realize the material was compromised. We see that timeline in my dad's pathology reports, the way his pleural thickening progressed.

The documentation gap is real too. When we were trying to piece together his exposure history back in March, there were entire years where the Navy's records just said "standard insulation materials" without any breakdown. No way to go back and verify. His old shipmates have been incredibly helpful filling in those gaps, talking about which spaces had what, but that's anecdotal. It's not the same as having actual records.

One thing that helped us was getting a copy of his complete service records and cross referencing them with historical ship documentation from the Naval History Center. Not all ships have good records but some do. If anyone's trying to establish their exposure timeline, that's worth pursuing even if it feels like a long shot.

I'm sorry about what you went through on the Oriskany. The not knowing part might actually be the worst part.
Veteran
Yeah that degradation piece is exactly it. On a ship you're in tight spaces with that stuff for hours at a time, and if it's breaking down you're breathing in whatever's coming off it. My pleurectomy surgeon asked me point blank about areas where I worked regularly and degraded insulation was one of the first things he zeroed in on. Said that pattern of exposure matters for how the fibers lodge in the lungs. Your dad probably saw the same thing in those plants. The Navy didn't care about any of that back then.

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